Classpect Discussion

So, I put this in plot ideas because classpects (the ungodly fusion of classes and aspects) are intertwined with a character's arc.

Anyhow, classes and aspects are pretty damn annoying, especially when some characters are completely brushed over, and no other characters share either part (I am so sorry, Sollux). But the reason I bring this up is so we can have a thread for debating and repeatedly stating our obtuse opinions over and over again without actually getting anywhere. (This is as opposed to using the chat for it, hahaaa...)

So yeah! Discuss something.


Uh, first let's talk Mage.
tumut

Sollux and meulin

The fuck is doom

The fuck is heart

What the fuck did sollux do in relation to what we established doom to be

The fuck did meulin do in relation to what the whale humping hell heart is

More questions.

Burdenking get over here! We need you and your innitiative!

I, personally, am VERY weird when it comes to classpects, especially when it comes to classes. To me, active refers to the aspect being the patient, whilst passive refers to the aspect being the agent.

To be simple about it... A mage is best defined as "player knows/learns aspect (most of the time, the hard way)" versus a seer being "aspect teaching player".

Also, when it comes to classes, I look at inversion. A mage is VERY good at understanding, but they have a challenge at changing their opposite.

Sollux, for example, has learns and knows about doom. Doom being pessimism, coding, and submission in his case. His personal challenge, to me, would be being affected by life (heir of life being the inversion). First, being with life (Feferi) caused him to be KO'd. Second, Vriska didn't want to make a Sollux-sprite because he was happy as he was, not living. Dying was one of the best things to happen to Sollux.

Meulin, learns and knows about heart. Heart being inclination, the self, the "soul", and emotion. Her challenge would be being affected by mind. She is controlled by Kurloz to a degree who has telekinetic powers. She seems to mainly be a "bad mage" due to not really applying her knowledge to herself, and screwing up her relationship.

It is quite interesting to note that both mages have lost a sense. Sollux lost his sight, and Meulin her hearing. Whilst, only one seer has lost a sense.

Okay so I am of two minds as to what you said
So like, inversions
In reality, nothing abstract has a complete opposite, and the only opposite of something physical is literally that thing composed of antimatter.
but yeah, abstracts like classes and aspects can't have an inversion because they both have at least two nuances to them and that's basically pairing 24 things with eachother. Not to mention it's implied that there are at least 48 classes and aspects due to math and obtuse the huss of lips shit.

But the thing about mage being the /pair/ class (which is canon confirmed that there are paired classes) to Seer is possible, and I like your take on it. But what if it was less of mage learning and seer being taught than Seer learning (as seen with rose and light as in inverse to shadow, terezi learning her powers) and mage being taught (meulin learning the hard way about people as a whole, sollux basically living death) by their aspects.

I could never subscribe to the inversion theory personally, idk, it just seems to clean for such a system so dependent on the emotional and mental states of adolescents, which ar einherently unstable and prone to needless complexities.

But I agree with tlo, on the a mage would be taught while a seer would learn. Just seems to fit the seers passiveness to just casually learn of their aspect while a mage goes out and gets taught by the aspect itself, despite that entailing them to meet the bad parts of that aspect.

As for meulin, I'm afraid I can't say much on her due to my skipping most of the flash game sin that section of the story, thus missing out on much of the alpha trolls. Meulin though, from what I understand, is great at setting people up, but suffers due to what happened to her along the way. Kurloz's honk, the mind control, the constantly pawsitive attitude she keeps despite needing to aknowledge the other emotions, stunting Horuss' growth due to again the suppression of the sadder emotions, and even the knowledge herself.

sadly, I can't say much on sollux, due to me never fully grasping his story ark. But I guess I can agree that he suffered from the doom he created, both the end of the universe code and the game itself, and learned in death more doom shit.

Honestly though, Mage is the hardest class to understand I think, as the inherent idea that they must suffer from their aspect to gain power is very confusing in how it works, where it works, and just how well it does. Not to mention the limits and abilities of the mage have never really been explored. the only classes we have delved into extensivly are the rogue, theif, heir, seer, knight, witch, maid, prince and page. and even out of those, we have only speculative idea on them despite all the evidence we've been shown, prince and Heir being the most developed and understood classes in my opinion.

Yeah, most don't agree with inversion theory. Which is a shame because it is somewhat canon. At least it seems to me. I'll still give input from that side as well.

Aspects invert at least. I cannot even half concede off that point. I could easily argue that for all of the kids, trolls, and cherubs.

Though yes, I forgot to edit which was the agent and passive. The mage would be an active understander, and seer, the passive understander.

Since phones aren't exactly known for text walls, and I'm on a phone, I'll say more later.

If aspects inverted, they would have said something about it. as it is, what are the odds that all the stated aspects would have an inversion with the stated aspects? There are (most likely) at least 48 aspects unless a session can have repeating aspects in it which is possible. I personally don't like applying strictures to stuff that aren't stated to exist. Pairing classes at least makes sense, cause there are literal canon pairs, bard/prince, lord/muse, thief/rogue, which aren't even inverses, just different twists on a theme.

Life and doom are inversions, light and void are, time and space are, etc. I would be surprised if I somehow made this up myself.

no, they're just related. An inversion is a complete oposite in the same type, and adding connections where there aren't any can get arduous

also why do inversions even matter hiw did we get on this tangent

Oh it's because we popped up into Classpects and usually people write huge walls of fluff that sound important and deep even if it's just big words about nothing, and this presumably will go into most other classes and aspects, so maybe, what if you pair them together? Oh that would cut down on half the work! Yay! Now what if you ignored the substance and just talked about pairings? Even less and it's great! But that's what I would think, and I would have supported inversion. Here's a few links to a good "source" of inversion theory.

http://bladekindeyewear.tumblr.com/post/28285514437/class-aspect-role-table
http://bladekindeyewear.tumblr.com/post/23881289939/aspect-duality-theory

This mother fucker.

Why is coding associated with doom. Coding seems more like a medium for anything rather than just straight up doom territory. Would prophesy be a doom thing? Hmmm. Wonder if doom and light players ever butt heads on the future. "YOU ARE GOING TO WIN IT 8IG IN 8LACKJACK." "THE CLOWN MAFIIA WIILL HUNT YOU DOWN FOR WIINNIING.".
Hmmmm.

Is prophesy and doom talk something all doom players get? Sollux and mituna got it. Would there be classes of doom that don't get premonitions? Is predicting the future something light players have or just seers and maybe mages?

TLO I would like to hear more about your 48 classes and aspects deal.

the huss of lips joked about a session composed of 48 squiddles that created the trolls' universe, and while the squiddle thing is silly the numbers still work

also i finished reading those links and oh god can we please acceot this as site canon, shut this thread and be content forever?

Mother fucker you argued about inversion a minute ago. Yeah. This is pretty convincing and a lot of people like it, some don't. When you make a session, you get to decide what is canon and what isn't. For the site, nah, we gotta let people think what they think and even develop additions if they fuckin want. On the other hand, you made this thread dude. Do with it what you will. I'd like to hear more from bk's side of it, who dosen't believe in inversion.

What does everyone think of bard?

I like to think it destabilizes its aspect. Not much else, just a big vague destabilization

Like grabbing a table and spinning it on a leg, then tipping it and waiting to see how much the food splatters?

more like slowly shaving from each leg until it's standing on toothpicks.

What do you think of mind players having bullshit like making someone insane or incredibly dim at will?

Mind is less intellect than psychology, as seen with Terezi's extensive explanations of it. So maybe a bard of mind would make everyone slowly go bonkers, or a witch of mind make it harder to concentrate, but mind control would be closer to breath's coverage of "freedom"

Doing something like that at will is basically about as OP as witch of space is anyhow, so yeah some classes are unbalanced more obviously if you think too hard.

I like to think that all classes are balanced. Some are just easier to pull COMPLETE bullshit with, but that's at full potential, and by then you'd probably have the ability to survive other magical bullshit with a combination of your own magical bullshit and actual ability gained through work. I think that indirrect power claspects can do some wicked things with either time or a subtle effect, though this is mostly in character creation and manifestation of powers.

How are new powers unlocked? Why would they not be balanced? Does equius really need any voidy bullshit to punch eridan's hope into his face? I'd like to think that if given the chance, equius could punch a hope blast.

actually when I read eridan's rampage i was like, if Eq was there he could use his fuckin powers for once...

But yeah, notice how I said 'more obviously unbalanced,' im pretty sure that no matter what it's all the same, some are just easier to make crazy than others.


About powers, I am basically completely sure that power is directly related with story arc and class. Basically, the class is the relationship between the X and Y axis of experience and power, if you remember your maths.
Like, it takes longer for a page to get their powers, but they gain them exponentially, far outstripping everything else in brute strength. But Heir gets their power quickly, but kind of maxes out quickly too. but they won't get anywhere if they never... get anywhere. A good example is both Jake and Roxy.

Jake makes a hope field more powerful than a green sun made by an alternate universe bomb meant to destroy a whole session in a manner similar to flipping a damn board in rage.
Roxy defy's the law of conservation of matter.

I don't see how these are good examples of anything except Isaac Newton crying

good examples of character development mirroring power levels, lel

Literally in-game "experience" gained through experience.