The Critical Question: John; the Windy Thing and the Natural Processes of Disposal.

So guys, Homestuck comes out tomorrow and I am sure we are all on our toes. I think now is the time to consider some very important things that I don't think have been talked about much in this fandom. Specifically regarding John Egbert and his Windy powers, and their application in practical life.

It boils down to this, we have seen John fully transform himself into wind, and this clearly extends to things that would not generally be considered part of the human body. Certainly parts of it that are not living such as his hair and nails are also transformed. The implications of this are wide reaching, but I would like to focus particularly on his gastrointestinal tract.

The question, ladies and gentlemen, is if John will ever have to go to the john again.

Basically we know that every time John transformes into the Windy Thing we are not treated to a spray of half digested foodstuffs and quasi processed fecal matter, it all turns to wind with him. Presumably wind that does not smell like shit.

As John can transform and reform from the Breeze at will, what is to prevent him from transforming only his poo into wind and then releasing it, either through one of the natural orifices or through simple sublimation, and osmosis through the skin. As this byproduct is genuine wind presumably of some sort of spiritual significance it then goes on to become a permanent part of the atmosphere.

Now some of you might be saying "Woah hold on there great and benevolent RP leader! John probably does not put that much thought into it, you're sick!"

Am I?

I want you to put yourself in John's shoes for just a second. You are a bold, friendly, somewhat awkward nerd with the world on your shoulders and a beautiful and vivacious Roxy on your arm who you really want to impress.

Now imagine that you had at your disposal the means to never have to drop a load in the latrines again or ever worry about any hygienic issues related. Would you not take that obvious and convenient escape route? Remember the heroes in movies never have to go to the bathroom, and now John potentially never does either, just like his silver screen heroes.

I think the conclusion to all this is easy enough to draw.

Also, farts are technically wind as well. So he can become farts.

But this means more. This means that Tavros provides others with farts and Rufioh steals farts for the benefit of others.

Basically Tavros farts 24/7 and Rufioh is the cool bro who would claim your farts because he doesn't want you to feel embarrassed.

Gog bless, Rufioh.

Hmmmm, well I don't think that John turns into farts actually, that's looking at it to simply. I think he is transforming himself into wind. So the waste inside him is not being turned into methane, its being turned into oxygen and the other trace elements that make up what we call air. So johns shit is quite breathable.
In fact john would never really have to fart since he could automatically transform his ordinary farts into this air like supernatural substance.

Hm, if John does have that much accuracy with his transformation then it would be best for him to never now about the great waste disposal it possess. He will end up turning random parts of his body into random wind if he isn't focusing, leaving only a far stretching treasure trail of toe nails and organs where his body used to be.

Possibly, but at the same time wouldn't it be much easier to single out and remove things that are not strictly speaking connected to him? I mean his hair and toenails are firmly attached to his body, but when you break it down the food inside him is not.
Now I cant prove any of this of course, but its fair to say that John has recombined himself successfully several times so far and probably has it down well enough to differentiate between his various parts.

It is a matter of concern if he adopts this method though because one's intestines contain important bacteria that aid the the breaking down of food in the first place that is in fact critical to ones digestion. He could risk losing this if he just transforms his waste to wind wholesale and ejects it without consideration.

Well if you are concerned about things in the body not firmly attached then my greatest concern would be with body. John would need to be very specific as to what he is converting to wind and without line of sight how can one tell the difference between chyme flowing through the duodenum and blood in a nearby capillary. Also without regular exercise his colon muscles would undergo atrophy and eventually if he did need to go it would just fall out of him or stay up in him until he winded it out.

Im not really too concerned with John getting his own body mixed up, I think he has it down. I am worried about him ejecting seemingly innocuous but actually important parts of it though, such as the bacteria that lives in your gut.
I mean, he recognizes that blood is important and that he probably shouldn't mess with it, its pretty common knowledge. I'm not so sure that he realizes that certain parts of his shit are important though, and could be dangerous to lose.

For his colon, that is a tough one, and I do think there would be consequences. Doesnt simple activity like walking or running sort of affect it a little though? I mean its all pretty interconnected down there. Then agaaain, John loves flying everywhere, which does not exercise his lower body at all, and means he would be robbed of even the small second hand exercise that would provide his colon. Yeah, he may be in for a nasty surprise one of these years.

Eventually he might make some sort of compromise, like, reminding himself to commit to natural functions once every week or so.

zoraroastedCoffee wrote:Im not really too concerned with John getting his own body mixed up, I think he has it down. I am worried about him ejecting seemingly innocuous but actually important parts of it though, such as the bacteria that lives in your gut.
I mean, he recognizes that blood is important and that he probably shouldn't mess with it, its pretty common knowledge. I'm not so sure that he realizes that certain parts of his shit are important though, and could be dangerous to lose.

For his colon, that is a tough one, and I do think there would be consequences. Doesnt simple activity like walking or running sort of affect it a little though? I mean its all pretty interconnected down there. Then agaaain, John loves flying everywhere, which does not exercise his lower body at all, and means he would be robbed of even the small second hand exercise that would provide his colon. Yeah, he may be in for a nasty surprise one of these years.

Eventually he might make some sort of compromise, like, reminding himself to commit to natural functions once every week or so.  

Just seems like a bodily weakness that would be uncomfortable living with on a regular basis, the fact that if he doesn't do magic then he might lose his goo. What if he is sleeping and can't walk up in time to wind out his shit, would his dream bubble self know about said shit, if he dies after shitting someone else's bed does it count as a just death. So many questions and yet so little time.

I think it would be a classical example of failing to realize the value of common everyday mortal activities. I really hope we get to see something like this in the comic.

zoraroastedCoffee wrote:I think it would be a classical example of failing to realize the value of common everyday mortal activities. I really hope we get to see something like this in the comic.

I'm surprised it hasn't already, it seems like the type of thing Karkat would question Dave about.

Yeah it does sort of fit. I think we should get together a petition to have this issue addressed in Paradox Space.

zoraroastedCoffee wrote:Yeah it does sort of fit. I think we should get together a petition to have this issue addressed in Paradox Space.

Yeah, it would have fit perfectly into the current summer teen romance comic as a sort of side tangent.

Have you ever worked as a camp counselor before? The bathroom related disasters that go down on a regular basis are shocking. I would argue that including them in Summer Teen Romance is the only way to accurately create a realistic camp environment.
In the end thats what we as fans are looking for after all. Realism is one of the most important things that I think can be detailed in a comic like this. It shows that the creators care.

zoraroastedCoffee wrote:Have you ever worked as a camp counselor before? The bathroom related disasters that go down on a regular basis are shocking. I would argue that including them in Summer Teen Romance is the only way to accurately create a realistic camp environment.
In the end thats what we as fans are looking for after all. Realism is one of the most important things that I think can be detailed in a comic like this. It shows that the creators care.

Exactly, as semi-cannon it is the role of the comic to answer these important questions so that we can be immersed in the characters and plot without these IMPORTANT questions lingering in the back of our mind. Maybe it could come to fruition through future Karkat's imminent chastising of past Karkat's script. Maybe a miscommunication about the mechanics of human waste disposal could lead to a spirited debate relating to this topic.

Well its a bit tricky at that, because at this point the Meteorite crew is unaware of Johns powers of windy transformation.

I think what they could do to solve this is erase Summerteen Romance and start over from scratch on the Prospit Ship with John and Jade after John's battle with Jack Noir, when his windy powers have been established. We could then give the script and character parts of the story to a few consorts or something, make it about them, detail all the consorts the fandom cares about, and then introduce the side plot. I don't think just introducing it out of the blue would be good. What it boils down to is that in a situation like this context is everything, and if you just have it come out of nowhere the fans will pick up on it and they could misinterpret it as an attempt to derail the plot.

zoraroastedCoffee wrote:Well its a bit tricky at that, because at this point the Meteorite crew is unaware of Johns powers of windy transformation.

I think what they could do to solve this is erase Summerteen Romance and start over from scratch on the Prospit Ship with John and Jade after John's battle with Jack Noir, when his windy powers have been established. We could then give the script and character parts of the story to a few consorts or something, make it about them, detail all the consorts the fandom cares about, and then introduce the side plot. I don't think just introducing it out of the blue would be good. What it boils down to is that in a situation like this context is everything, and if you just have it come out of nowhere the fans will pick up on it and they could misinterpret it as an attempt to derail the plot.

Hm, yes. Could lead to a lot of explanation of mechanics, though I think connecting Jade's powers with the mechanics of defecation would be a bit too much for the comic. I don't know about you but thinking about the expansion of waste seems way too real for the comic. See, now I can't stop thinking about how other aspects would come into it, how could time powers or space powers come into it. Do you think Rose always knows when she will go or does knowing the schedule of future defecations not fall under knowledge of fortune and victory. So many questions.

Well thats the great thing about Homestuck and the aspect system isn't it, it affects all aspects of a character's destiny and existence.

Aside from this you raise many fascinating questions.

I would have to say no to Rose being able to see future defecations, as excrement is almost by definition unrelated to any sort of spotlight or glory. It would be a Seer of Void who could predict future defecations, as they could see all results that arise from the hidden, the shameful and the things considered unimportant. In fact the pun is in the very name, with them being able to See when people will Void themselves, or what would cause someone to Void themselves. This would make them especially good at assassinations, or at instilling fear in people, as they would be automatically privy (pun intended) to whatever it was that frightened a person enough to cause them to release their bowls involuntarily. From this we can infer that a Seer of Void would be a sort of Batman or Scarecrow like character.

I would also give merit to the idea of Kankri being able to predict deadly medical conditions, as he could See when it was that people would have Blood in their stool, and alert them to needing medical attention before hand.

PS: this thread is becoming surprisingly useful to the God Tier powers identification thread. I suggest we merge them, or at least have them draw from each other to some degree.

zoraroastedCoffee wrote:Well thats the great thing about Homestuck and the aspect system isn't it, it affects all aspects of a character's destiny and existence.

Aside from this you raise many fascinating questions.

I would have to say no to Rose being able to see future defecations, as excrement is almost by definition unrelated to any sort of spotlight or glory. It would be a Seer of Void who could predict future defecations, as they could see all results that arise from the hidden, the shameful and the things considered unimportant. In fact the pun is in the very name, with them being able to See when people will Void themselves, or what would cause someone to Void themselves. This would make them especially good at assassinations, or at instilling fear in people, as they would be automatically privy (pun intended) to whatever it was that frightened a person enough to cause them to release their bowls involuntarily. From this we can infer that a Seer of Void would be a sort of Batman or Scarecrow like character.

I would also give merit to the idea of Kankri being able to predict deadly medical conditions, as he could See when it was that people would have Blood in their stool, and alert them to needing medical attention before hand.

PS: this thread is becoming surprisingly useful to the God Tier powers identification thread. I suggest we merge them, or at least have them draw from each other to some degree.  

I suppose a Seer of Doom would also have knowledge of future defecation as their knowledge of law (Defecation is the great unspoken law of life) would allow them to know the certain ins and outs (Pun absolutely intended) of defecation, including frequency. Maybe something like a Prince of Time, when god tiered, would be able to destroy the time of others, forcing them to a moment in which they would need to defecate, maybe.

Do you think that a Space player would have knowledge of these things due to their involvement with creation, does the deposing of waste technically count as the creation of defecation. I guess it is all relative, one man's trash and all that. I wonder how other things may be involved. One of interpretation of the Knight role is that whatever aspect the knight has in a session, that session lacks that aspect. Like how the Beta kids session lacked time, how the Alpha trolls session lacked unity and how the Dancestors session lacked good decision making. Would a Knight of Void session make the players have intimate knowledge of the exact time of which other players are defecating?

I think you may be going a bit far in a few places, but the principle of the thing is solid. I think a Seer of Doom would be able to see a person's final end, which, if they were devoured by a predator and shat out upon the barren earth, would be the location of that shat and the circumstances of how they were devoured.
Overall though I think feces lies solidly on the destruction end of the spectrum of the creation/destruction dichotomy.

In the case of the Life player however waste is a rich source of potential fertility, and they could potentially see what sort of life could come from it. The French in particular used to think of waste as one of the prime symbols of being alive, as stated by the artisan de Vaucanson in regards to his famous craping robot duck of 1739

While homestuck usually favors English or Italian symbology I don't think the French or their philosophies can be ignored in this case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digesting_Duck

For the knight of Void, that is an interesting definition of a Knight, I think a Knight of Void would probably have a lot of secrets and awkward moments coming to light in general. I would have to think about that.